Used for class discussion and getting comments for revision on papers.
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Monday, January 19, 2009
Crimes
Post #4
Due before the end of January IN CLASS.
What crimes (in your opinion) are the worst in the Great Gatsby. What crimes should have been overlooked? Does the time period or your feelings for Gatsby influence your decision?
the worst crimes in The Great Gatsby are when Tom's lover dies from being hit with Gatsby's car when Daisy is driving and it is never confessed what really happens. And the resulting factor from that is that Gatsby is shot by Wilson and is killed. I also think it is a crime that after all that happened between Tom and Daisy, she chose to stay in a loveless marriage with him, when she was in love with Gatsby, and his love was unconditional in comparison with Tom (who is a disgusting, cheating, idiot, racist, pig.) Gatsby was clearly the better choice. Not to mention, Daisy didn't even attempt to go to Gatsby's funeral. apparently she never loved him at all which is apparent by her actions. i feel none of these crimes should have been overlooked. The time period has no influence on my feelings, but my feelings for Gatsby (who i think is a gentleman and a sweetheart,) do influence my feelings.
I think the worst crime is all the lying. So many of the problems in Gatsby have to do with people pretending to be those they are not or people living a lie.
I do think the time period influenced Daisy. She wanted to stay rich and probably could not have cared for herself at that time. I don't think she deserved Gatsby.
I think the worst crime was that Gatsby and Daisy didn't really love each other. Daisy wanted wealth and respect from her parents.
Gatsby wanted Daisy. He was poor and unimportant so he became what he thought she wanted him to be. That was a crime. Sure, people need to be financially secure, but if you truly love someone you will do it, regardless of parents, the time period, or whether you have wealth or not.
I am not finished with the book, but I think a huge problem in the book is how there are a few inter-marital affairs going on- and its not a big problem :/ Tom finally catches on to Daisy and Gatsby but so far he hasn't really done anything about it. Tom's affair with Myrtle isn't cool either- Daisy just ignores it. Pretending like a problem of that magnitude isn't happening is a huge mistake. Apparently it's a bigger problem now than it was back then.
I don't think it's the biggest problem that Daisy and Gatsby weren't in true love, merely because it is so common even in today's world. However, despite Daisy's innocent, sweet, careless attitude, it's terrible to admire and make it seem like you love someone simply for your own acceptance and status. It's not fair to marry for money, respect, or popularity.
I agree with manbear, I do think that people need to not worry so much about what society thinks. It should be more about who you are not what others think.
Maybe because our characters are shallow. It's too bad--they didn't have to be!
It's true- the characters are all shallow. However, there is something about Jordan that is putting my radar on alert. She seems a little wise to what's going on, dare I say smart- I know a lot of people may disagree, but what other reason can you give for Jordan not getting tied up in scandal and getting screwed over?
I would have to say that the worst crimes in The Great Gatsby were Tom and Daisy leaving after Daisy had planned to be with Gatsby and also that Tom told George Wilson things that made Gatsby look guilty in having an affair with Mertyle. When Tome was and Daisy actually ran her over. There were no crimes that should have been overlooked, only crimes that should have been more looked at. Such as all the affairs going on. Once someone found out it was just a typical thing, no one took any action in stopping it. Neither the time perios or my feelings toward Gatsby unfluence my decision. No matter what the time period is those people should not have acted they way they did.
I partially agree with Asian. I do think the crimes should have been more looked at, but rich people back then had more power and the luxury to get away with murder. Do you all still think this is the case or does social status or wealth have no impact?
What about the fact that most of the main characters were committing "crimes" by trying to be people they were not or trying to be like people they didn't even really know?
We all like to think we "know" a person, but perceptions change with the narrator--look how Nick's perception changed about Gatz and about Daisy!
I do disagree. I think time period has some influence. Easier for the rich to flagrantly abuse the law than perhaps now?
Wasn't it harder for a woman to be her own person without a man for support during the 1920's than it is today? I don't know if I should feel sorry for Daisy or hate her for using people to get what she wanted.
I think a crime that is sort of overlooked is how Daisy and Tom ignore their daughter. They are off on their adulterous affairs, while their daughter is merely in existence. They seem to care more about parties, money, and booze than they do about their daughter. On page 117, Daisy finally spoke with her daughter, but then "with a reluctant backward glance the well-disciplined child held to her nurse's hand and was pulled out the door, just as Tom came back, preceding with four gin rickeys that clicked full of ice." I think the daughter is cared for, but not by her parents.
It was awful of Daisy and Tom to flee East Egg after the incident with Mildred. They took their aristocratic status for granted, and left a broken mess for Gatsby to pay the consequence for. I think Gatsby was sort of doomed from the start, though. He never looked past the "green light" of Daisy, and I think that led to his destruction.
I liked Gatsby because he seemed to be a loyal guy. Despite his bootlegging and still questionable past, I liked him. I think that he truly thought that he loved Daisy, and I was sorry that he had to die. I suppose that made me even angrier with Daisy and Tom for leaving him with the mess. The time period and "old money" angered me as well. I don't think that Daisy should have gotten away with her crime simply because she was rich and had the love of Gatsby.
You hit the nail on the head. I agree with you and think that the worst crime in this book is of course when Daisy and Gatsby run over Tom's lover Myrtle killing her.
The other crimes in this book are lesser ones, but they are still crimes. I agree with AP Teacher Nayback, i think that all of the lying and infidelity displayed in this book is a major cause for what happens in this book. It fuels most of the actions these characters Daisy, Tom, Myrtle, Gatsby, Jordan and Nick do in the book.
And another crime in the book is the crime that Gatsby commits and makes a rather large profit off of it. This crime is Bootlegging, and back then it was illegal.
I agree with Mrs. Nayback and browneyedgirl17. There is a lot of lying going on in Great Gatsby. While Daisy is driving, she hits Tom's lover, Myrtle, in Gatsby's car. Because Myrtle was killed, her husband, Wilson, shot and killed Gatsby. My BIGGEST issue in this book was the fact that Daisy stayed in her marriage with Tom, even though they didn't love each other. Her and Gatsby seemed to really care about each other, but when Gatsby was killed, Daisy made no attempt to go to his funeral. So even though Gatsby was cleary the better man, Daisy led him on and really didn't care about him at all. I don't think that any of these crimes should be overlooked because they are all very serious and lead to worse things. I think the time period very much influenced everything in the book. The fact that divorce was frowned upon made it so hard for Daisy and Tom to split up to be with other people, which kept them together, obviously. It probably forced the women to choose money over love, because without it they would not be able to care for themselves.
In my opinion, the worst crimes in Gatsby are those committed against Myrtle and Gatsby by Tom. Tom breaks her nose on pg 37: "Making a short deft movement, Tom Buchanan broke her nose with his open hand." In the end of chapter seven, Myrtle is struck and killed by Daisy, who is driving Gatsby's car. I consider Tom to be truly at fault, because Myrtle was trying to talk to him when she ran out to the car. Finally, Tom tells Wilson that the car that killed Myrtle was Gatsby's. Although this is true, Tom deliberately misleads Wilson into thinking that Gatsby was Myrtle's lover. On page 178, Tom admits this, claiming "That fellow [Gatsby] had it coming to him."
Gatsby's personal crimes should have been overlooked. Yes, he was a criminal, but he was a decent man at heart. His only real fault was a naive trust in human nature and the American Dream. I suppose that my opinion is slanted because I like Gatsby. I feel sorry for him. He was in love with Daisy once, he just allowed that obsession to morph into the love of an idea instead of the love of a person.
I agree with practically everything that you're saying, particularly your feelings toward Tom because he is absolutely disgusting. I agree that Daisy did commit a lot of moral crimes which should never have happened.
The biggest problem, stated by a lot of other people so far, is love. Tom and Myrtle, Daisy and Gatsby. I blame a lot of fault on Daisy because if it wasn't for her greed for power and money, she and Tom would've never gotten together. She'd also probably be with Gatsby. The crime basically is false love. The story gives us an example of people who love each other for the wrong reasons and then go behind each others backs to be with the ones they want to be with. If in the first place they loved for reasons they thought true, they might have not been in the problem they're in now.
I think some of the biggest crimes in the book are lying and cheating. I haven't read all of the book, but it seems that everyone has both of those problems. Like manbearpig2009 said, both daisy and Tom are cheating on each other and are both denying it. Denying the fact that the other is cheating and that what they are doing is wrong. I agree with almost everyone when they say no crime should have been overlooked. And no, i dont think the time period or feeling for gatsby change my opinion. What everyone did was wrong.
From what i read from other people is that Daisy run over another girl. Even though I didn't read that myself, I have to agree with browneyedgirl, that when daisy doesnt confess that it is wrong and when wilson shoots gatsby that, that is wrong also. I dont think any crime should be overlooked.
Even though I'm not finished with the book, so far the biggest crime in my opinion is dishonesty. Daisy lies during her relationship with Gatsby. She doesn’t “love” him. She only wants him for his money, and the attention. Gatsby is truly in love with Daisy, and it’s not fair how Daisy is doing that to him.
It shouldn’t matter how much money someone has, their physical appearance, or they times you live in, if you love someone those things should not matter at all. Daisy didn’t care about any of these; she wanted money, attention, and respect. Daisy should have died, not Gatsby.
I agree that Tom is a "disgusting, cheating, idiot, racist pig." He is also a filthy-minded, sexist moron. I think that he should be beaten to death by a group of angry African-American women. That seems like it would be his ultimate punishment.
I agree with AP Teacher Nayback's comment about the lying in the book. It is one of the crimes that does a lot of damage. Gatsby wouldn't be dead (or he wouldn't be dead for the same reason) if Tom, Gatsby, or Daisy had told the truth.
I disagree with IheartACDC, no one should have shot Daisy. She was just using her mind to stay afloat during the time period. Her actions were wrong, but she was doing what was best for herself.
In my opinion, the lying has to stop. Its just like our highschool. Everybody lies all the time and then theres fighting and people getting hurt. Its the same way in Gatsby. All the affairs that were going on needed to stop too. You need to be loyal to one person, not two. Tom's wife gets hit from Gatsby's car and then Gatsby gets shot and killed by Wilson. All of it was because people lied and beat around the bush. But back in the day if you were wealthier or rich you could get away with crimes like that. If only they would've came true about the whole thing maybe none of it would've happened. throughout the whole book Gatsby wanted Daisy to be with him and it never happened. He love her so much, and after his death Daisy didnt even show up to it. She knew how much he loved her. She could've atleast showed up and made an appearance.
I agree when you say all of that stuff about Tom. Tom is an evil little man. Tom:Gatsby as Satan:God. I just hope something bad happens to Tom, so he learns not to be such a liar. Everybody cheer for Karma!
I think the real "crimes" in the book The Great Gatsby aren't based on lawfulness at all. The crimes that were caused by breaking the law are mostly insignificant. Gatsby being a bootlegger doesn't cause anyone else anyone else any grief. Forget it. The only reason it's important in this book is because it's how Gatsby makes his quick money. The REAL crimes in this book are the things that cause other people harm. For the most part, these crimes have a common root of lies. The whole "love pentagon" between Tom, Daisy, Myrtle, Mr. Wilson, and Jay Gatsby is based on people living in lies. These lies start to unravel and start tremendous conflicts at the end of the book, and they eventually lead to the deaths of Myrtle, Mr. Wilson, and Mr. Gatsby. Another crime in this book is exemplified by Gatsby and Daisy's situation. When Daisy bases her love on money and leaves Gatsby hanging, she makes him believe in the false concept that money can buy him love. This causes him to make quick money to impress her. When he does this, he starts a cycle of idealism that causes him to work for something that doesn't exist. The expense of this lifestyle is the meaningful relationships and achievements that people may pride themselves in. Empty lives are the product of this lifestyle: the real crime in The Great Gatsby.
The worst crime in the novel, in my opinion, is how Daisy strings Gatsby along after she finds out how he feels about her and how much money he has. The only reason Daisy spends time with Gatsby is because of his reputation, money, and attention. Daisy loves attention. The dishonesty in what she does throughout the book is just rediculous. I think the fact that Daisy and Gatsby hit Myrtle should be overlooked. Myrtle was going crazing being locked in her bedroom and when her husband let her out she lost it. I don't think she was trying to flag somebody down to talk to them or anything and I definately don't think she recognized Daisy or Gatsby. She might have been trying to get a ride so that she could run away but I think she was trying to kill herself. Because of these things I don't think that anyone should be punished. I do like the character Gatsby and I think he is the best character in the story but I'm really just trying to go with what happened in the story. I think Gatsby was the best guy but he ended with the worst.
I really don't think that any of the crimes in The Great Gatsby should have been overlooked. The crime of Mertyl getting hit by the car should have been investigated way further. It's not right that Gatsby took the blame for what Daisy did, but then again, he was in love, so it was his own fault in a way. As far as all the cheating that went on in the book, like Tom cheating on Daisy with Mertyl and Daisy cheating on Tom with Gatsby, that all should have stopped and then maybe Mertyl wouldn't have died.
I really do agree with AP Teacher Nayback that back then, if you were rich, you could get away with murder. These days, it's the rich people that are looked at first for murders.
Why does everyone hate Daisy? She was just doing what a rich woman would have done back then.
No way that a pretty rich girl's dad would have let her marry a poor nobody (which is what Gatsby used to be). I think that time is a big influence.
I do disagree about the rich getting away with murder today. Even O.J is getting his justice finally and senators can't just sell seats to the highest bidders these days.
Maybe we shouldn't put too much faith or trust in people to be perfect. It's just impossible.
Hey--watch the spelling--geez--I can't respond to some of you as I am not sure what you are saying!
I think ManBear has it right. Maybe Gatz and Daisy are living in the past and neither know what true love is--if so, wouldn't the end of the book had been different?
The worst crime in the Great Gatsby is definitely when Daisy runs over Tom's mistress Myrtle. Gatsby takes the blame because he loves Daisy, and ends up being shot by Mr.Wilson. Which brings up my next point. I think that murder isn't the answer to anyones problem. I could see being upset about your wife dying,but shooting someone isn't going to bring them back. There is so much lying and marital issues going on too.I don't like how Tom and Daisy sneak around with other people. It doesn't even work out. Tom loses his woman, and Daisy gets stuck with her disgusting husband.I agree with Jack, Daisy only spends time with Gatsby because he is rich, and she gets to be the center of attention. The relationship problem happens to Nick too. Jordan tells him after Gatsby that she is engaged with a another man. "I don't give a damn about you now, but it was a new experience for me, and ...(pg:177)
Now that I have finished the book, I can add greatly to this post.
There are SO many crimes in this book- it's a shame, really. It's hard to say which one is worst because they all tie into the tragedy. As I mentioned before, the non-chalant cheating between Daisy/Gatsby and Tom/Myrtle is an obvious one. But it goes beyond that. When did stuff like this become okay?
Why on EARTH would you hit someone in a car and not stop? Even if it was intentional, wouldn't you at least PRETEND it was an accident?
Materialism and greed have taken over the society, or so the book portrays. Lying, deception, cheating, and overall apathy for what SHOULD matter are huge issues. It's also quite sad that when Gatsby is buried, you truly do realize that no one was his friend. I do believe Nick became his friend, but what about all those people who showed up at his house for parties? Even in the book, it mentioned that cars came in and out of his driveway the Saturday night after he died, but were disappointed that "for whatever reason" there was no party.
WOW, what a real bummer. The host died. But who cares? There's no music, free food, and illegal alcohol to guzzle.
I think especially with alcohol being illegal, it also sparked some other rebellious trends in society- it was a new world, free to explore. If they were doing this illegally, how much else could they get away with?
I absolutely agree, I feel the worst crimes be commited in the Great Gatsby are those of the characters feeling the need to hide who they really are, we don't really ever see who the real Nick is, or who the real Daisy is, perhaps this is why we dislike these characters so much. The time period definately influences my decision, status has a huge role in all of the characters lives. I agree there is no excuse for tom or daisy's actions in the book. Due to Daisy's stupid and selfish decisions she kills a Myrtle and in the result of that get's Gatsby killed. I think that when people are forced to hide who they really are they become caught up in their own web of lies and can't tell the difference between their truth from lies, which is why I believe all of these events ended the way they did. Myrtle hiding her feelings for Tom and Gatsby hiding his feelings for Daisy. It is all a tragic situation!
I definately feel that the worst crime is when Myrtle gets hit by the car and Daisy lets Gatsby take the blame for it. Daisy basically killed two people, because if she would've said something, even just to Tom, he wouldn't have had Wilson kill Gatsby. That crime was also on the same level. Wilson should've never shot Gatsby just because Tom told him to. Another crime, not quite as large as the others, is that no one went to Gatsby's funeral. Everyone loved to go to his parties, but when he died they didn't care at all. One of the crimes I believed that can be overlooked is drinking during prohibition, but then again it did cause problems in the book. However, I feel Gatsby is a great guy, and that really changes my opinion on many of these issues.
In my opinion Daisy committed the worst crimes in the Great Gatsby. The fact that she took someone’s life and didn’t stand up for her wrong actions shows she’s a coward. It also shows that she feels she’s better than everyone else and thinks her money gives her the right or ability to live above the law.
I also think Tom’s affair was a huge crime because he did it even though he knew it was killing someone he “loved” inside. It shows he only thought of himself and was only worried about his own problems.
I think manbearpig2009 said it the best: "Materialism and greed have taken over the society, or so the book portrays. Lying, deception, cheating, and overall apathy for what SHOULD matter are huge issues." Not only do I agree with him/her, but I think he/she said exactly what I was trying to say in my earlier post, only better.
I agree with AP teacher Nayback about lying being a big crime in the book. Gatsby lies about his life in order to impress Daisy, which ruins his reputation as a humble man. Another crime is when Gatsby knows Daisy is married to Tom, but still tries to pursue her anyway. Apparently, Gatsby is too love struck to let reality sink in. Trying to make Daisy fall in love with him (even though she is married) and acting upon his feelings is a crime that Gatsby commits. He needs to know where to draw the line.
As for overlooking crimes, I really don't feel there are any that should have been brushed off. The lying, the love affairs, the car accident involving Myrtle being killed, and Gatsby being shot are just a few of the many crimes found in the book. Even though it is the 1920’s and crimes aren’t as severely punished as they are today, the time period does not influence my decision about crimes. As for my feelings for Gatsby, they don’t really affect my decision either. I do feel sorry for him when he gets shot in the pool (since he wasn’t the cause of Myrtle’s death), but it was still a murder and deffiantly should have not been overlooked.
32 comments:
the worst crimes in The Great Gatsby are when Tom's lover dies from being hit with Gatsby's car when Daisy is driving and it is never confessed what really happens. And the resulting factor from that is that Gatsby is shot by Wilson and is killed. I also think it is a crime that after all that happened between Tom and Daisy, she chose to stay in a loveless marriage with him, when she was in love with Gatsby, and his love was unconditional in comparison with Tom (who is a disgusting, cheating, idiot, racist, pig.) Gatsby was clearly the better choice. Not to mention, Daisy didn't even attempt to go to Gatsby's funeral. apparently she never loved him at all which is apparent by her actions. i feel none of these crimes should have been overlooked. The time period has no influence on my feelings, but my feelings for Gatsby (who i think is a gentleman and a sweetheart,) do influence my feelings.
I think the worst crime is all the lying. So many of the problems in Gatsby have to do with people pretending to be those they are not or people living a lie.
I do think the time period influenced Daisy. She wanted to stay rich and probably could not have cared for herself at that time. I don't think she deserved Gatsby.
I think the worst crime was that Gatsby and Daisy didn't really love each other. Daisy wanted wealth and respect from her parents.
Gatsby wanted Daisy. He was poor and unimportant so he became what he thought she wanted him to be. That was a crime. Sure, people need to be financially secure, but if you truly love someone you will do it, regardless of parents, the time period, or whether you have wealth or not.
Someone should have shot Daisy!
I am not finished with the book, but I think a huge problem in the book is how there are a few inter-marital affairs going on- and its not a big problem :/ Tom finally catches on to Daisy and Gatsby but so far he hasn't really done anything about it. Tom's affair with Myrtle isn't cool either- Daisy just ignores it. Pretending like a problem of that magnitude isn't happening is a huge mistake. Apparently it's a bigger problem now than it was back then.
Responding to IheartACDC:
I don't think it's the biggest problem that Daisy and Gatsby weren't in true love, merely because it is so common even in today's world. However, despite Daisy's innocent, sweet, careless attitude, it's terrible to admire and make it seem like you love someone simply for your own acceptance and status. It's not fair to marry for money, respect, or popularity.
I agree with manbear, I do think that people need to not worry so much about what society thinks. It should be more about who you are not what others think.
Maybe because our characters are shallow. It's too bad--they didn't have to be!
In response to AP Teacher Nayback:
It's true- the characters are all shallow. However, there is something about Jordan that is putting my radar on alert. She seems a little wise to what's going on, dare I say smart- I know a lot of people may disagree, but what other reason can you give for Jordan not getting tied up in scandal and getting screwed over?
I would have to say that the worst crimes in The Great Gatsby were Tom and Daisy leaving after Daisy had planned to be with Gatsby and also that Tom told George Wilson things that made Gatsby look guilty in having an affair with Mertyle. When Tome was and Daisy actually ran her over.
There were no crimes that should have been overlooked, only crimes that should have been more looked at. Such as all the affairs going on. Once someone found out it was just a typical thing, no one took any action in stopping it.
Neither the time perios or my feelings toward Gatsby unfluence my decision. No matter what the time period is those people should not have acted they way they did.
I partially agree with Asian. I do think the crimes should have been more looked at, but rich people back then had more power and the luxury to get away with murder. Do you all still think this is the case or does social status or wealth have no impact?
What about the fact that most of the main characters were committing "crimes" by trying to be people they were not or trying to be like people they didn't even really know?
We all like to think we "know" a person, but perceptions change with the narrator--look how Nick's perception changed about Gatz and about Daisy!
I do disagree. I think time period has some influence. Easier for the rich to flagrantly abuse the law than perhaps now?
Wasn't it harder for a woman to be her own person without a man for support during the 1920's than it is today? I don't know if I should feel sorry for Daisy or hate her for using people to get what she wanted.
I think a crime that is sort of overlooked is how Daisy and Tom ignore their daughter. They are off on their adulterous affairs, while their daughter is merely in existence. They seem to care more about parties, money, and booze than they do about their daughter. On page 117, Daisy finally spoke with her daughter, but then "with a reluctant backward glance the well-disciplined child held to her nurse's hand and was pulled out the door, just as Tom came back, preceding with four gin rickeys that clicked full of ice." I think the daughter is cared for, but not by her parents.
It was awful of Daisy and Tom to flee East Egg after the incident with Mildred. They took their aristocratic status for granted, and left a broken mess for Gatsby to pay the consequence for. I think Gatsby was sort of doomed from the start, though. He never looked past the "green light" of Daisy, and I think that led to his destruction.
I liked Gatsby because he seemed to be a loyal guy. Despite his bootlegging and still questionable past, I liked him. I think that he truly thought that he loved Daisy, and I was sorry that he had to die. I suppose that made me even angrier with Daisy and Tom for leaving him with the mess. The time period and "old money" angered me as well. I don't think that Daisy should have gotten away with her crime simply because she was rich and had the love of Gatsby.
In response to browneyedgirl17:
You hit the nail on the head. I agree with you and think that the worst crime in this book is of course when Daisy and Gatsby run over Tom's lover Myrtle killing her.
The other crimes in this book are lesser ones, but they are still crimes. I agree with AP Teacher Nayback, i think that all of the lying and infidelity displayed in this book is a major cause for what happens in this book. It fuels most of the actions these characters Daisy, Tom, Myrtle, Gatsby, Jordan and Nick do in the book.
And another crime in the book is the crime that Gatsby commits and makes a rather large profit off of it. This crime is Bootlegging, and back then it was illegal.
I agree with Mrs. Nayback and browneyedgirl17. There is a lot of lying going on in Great Gatsby. While Daisy is driving, she hits Tom's lover, Myrtle, in Gatsby's car. Because Myrtle was killed, her husband, Wilson, shot and killed Gatsby. My BIGGEST issue in this book was the fact that Daisy stayed in her marriage with Tom, even though they didn't love each other. Her and Gatsby seemed to really care about each other, but when Gatsby was killed, Daisy made no attempt to go to his funeral. So even though Gatsby was cleary the better man, Daisy led him on and really didn't care about him at all. I don't think that any of these crimes should be overlooked because they are all very serious and lead to worse things.
I think the time period very much influenced everything in the book. The fact that divorce was frowned upon made it so hard for Daisy and Tom to split up to be with other people, which kept them together, obviously. It probably forced the women to choose money over love, because without it they would not be able to care for themselves.
In my opinion, the worst crimes in Gatsby are those committed against Myrtle and Gatsby by Tom. Tom breaks her nose on pg 37: "Making a short deft movement, Tom Buchanan broke her nose with his open hand." In the end of chapter seven, Myrtle is struck and killed by Daisy, who is driving Gatsby's car. I consider Tom to be truly at fault, because Myrtle was trying to talk to him when she ran out to the car. Finally, Tom tells Wilson that the car that killed Myrtle was Gatsby's. Although this is true, Tom deliberately misleads Wilson into thinking that Gatsby was Myrtle's lover. On page 178, Tom admits this, claiming "That fellow [Gatsby] had it coming to him."
Gatsby's personal crimes should have been overlooked. Yes, he was a criminal, but he was a decent man at heart. His only real fault was a naive trust in human nature and the American Dream. I suppose that my opinion is slanted because I like Gatsby. I feel sorry for him. He was in love with Daisy once, he just allowed that obsession to morph into the love of an idea instead of the love of a person.
In response to browneyedgirl17
I agree with practically everything that you're saying, particularly your feelings toward Tom because he is absolutely disgusting. I agree that Daisy did commit a lot of moral crimes which should never have happened.
The biggest problem, stated by a lot of other people so far, is love. Tom and Myrtle, Daisy and Gatsby. I blame a lot of fault on Daisy because if it wasn't for her greed for power and money, she and Tom would've never gotten together. She'd also probably be with Gatsby. The crime basically is false love. The story gives us an example of people who love each other for the wrong reasons and then go behind each others backs to be with the ones they want to be with. If in the first place they loved for reasons they thought true, they might have not been in the problem they're in now.
I think some of the biggest crimes in the book are lying and cheating. I haven't read all of the book, but it seems that everyone has both of those problems. Like manbearpig2009 said, both daisy and Tom are cheating on each other and are both denying it. Denying the fact that the other is cheating and that what they are doing is wrong. I agree with almost everyone when they say no crime should have been overlooked. And no, i dont think the time period or feeling for gatsby change my opinion. What everyone did was wrong.
From what i read from other people is that Daisy run over another girl. Even though I didn't read that myself, I have to agree with browneyedgirl, that when daisy doesnt confess that it is wrong and when wilson shoots gatsby that, that is wrong also. I dont think any crime should be overlooked.
Even though I'm not finished with the book, so far the biggest crime in my opinion is dishonesty. Daisy lies during her relationship with Gatsby. She doesn’t “love” him. She only wants him for his money, and the attention. Gatsby is truly in love with Daisy, and it’s not fair how Daisy is doing that to him.
It shouldn’t matter how much money someone has, their physical appearance, or they times you live in, if you love someone those things should not matter at all. Daisy didn’t care about any of these; she wanted money, attention, and respect.
Daisy should have died, not Gatsby.
To browneyedgirl17:
I agree that Tom is a "disgusting, cheating, idiot, racist pig." He is also a filthy-minded, sexist moron. I think that he should be beaten to death by a group of angry African-American women. That seems like it would be his ultimate punishment.
I agree with AP Teacher Nayback's comment about the lying in the book. It is one of the crimes that does a lot of damage. Gatsby wouldn't be dead (or he wouldn't be dead for the same reason) if Tom, Gatsby, or Daisy had told the truth.
I disagree with IheartACDC, no one should have shot Daisy. She was just using her mind to stay afloat during the time period. Her actions were wrong, but she was doing what was best for herself.
In my opinion, the lying has to stop. Its just like our highschool. Everybody lies all the time and then theres fighting and people getting hurt. Its the same way in Gatsby. All the affairs that were going on needed to stop too. You need to be loyal to one person, not two. Tom's wife gets hit from Gatsby's car and then Gatsby gets shot and killed by Wilson. All of it was because people lied and beat around the bush. But back in the day if you were wealthier or rich you could get away with crimes like that. If only they would've came true about the whole thing maybe none of it would've happened. throughout the whole book Gatsby wanted Daisy to be with him and it never happened. He love her so much, and after his death Daisy didnt even show up to it. She knew how much he loved her. She could've atleast showed up and made an appearance.
In response to mr. Apblog:
I agree when you say all of that stuff about Tom. Tom is an evil little man. Tom:Gatsby as Satan:God. I just hope something bad happens to Tom, so he learns not to be such a liar. Everybody cheer for Karma!
I think the real "crimes" in the book The Great Gatsby aren't based on lawfulness at all. The crimes that were caused by breaking the law are mostly insignificant. Gatsby being a bootlegger doesn't cause anyone else anyone else any grief. Forget it. The only reason it's important in this book is because it's how Gatsby makes his quick money.
The REAL crimes in this book are the things that cause other people harm. For the most part, these crimes have a common root of lies. The whole "love pentagon" between Tom, Daisy, Myrtle, Mr. Wilson, and Jay Gatsby is based on people living in lies. These lies start to unravel and start tremendous conflicts at the end of the book, and they eventually lead to the deaths of Myrtle, Mr. Wilson, and Mr. Gatsby.
Another crime in this book is exemplified by Gatsby and Daisy's situation. When Daisy bases her love on money and leaves Gatsby hanging, she makes him believe in the false concept that money can buy him love. This causes him to make quick money to impress her. When he does this, he starts a cycle of idealism that causes him to work for something that doesn't exist. The expense of this lifestyle is the meaningful relationships and achievements that people may pride themselves in. Empty lives are the product of this lifestyle: the real crime in The Great Gatsby.
The worst crime in the novel, in my opinion, is how Daisy strings Gatsby along after she finds out how he feels about her and how much money he has. The only reason Daisy spends time with Gatsby is because of his reputation, money, and attention. Daisy loves attention. The dishonesty in what she does throughout the book is just rediculous. I think the fact that Daisy and Gatsby hit Myrtle should be overlooked. Myrtle was going crazing being locked in her bedroom and when her husband let her out she lost it. I don't think she was trying to flag somebody down to talk to them or anything and I definately don't think she recognized Daisy or Gatsby. She might have been trying to get a ride so that she could run away but I think she was trying to kill herself. Because of these things I don't think that anyone should be punished. I do like the character Gatsby and I think he is the best character in the story but I'm really just trying to go with what happened in the story. I think Gatsby was the best guy but he ended with the worst.
I really don't think that any of the crimes in The Great Gatsby should have been overlooked. The crime of Mertyl getting hit by the car should have been investigated way further. It's not right that Gatsby took the blame for what Daisy did, but then again, he was in love, so it was his own fault in a way. As far as all the cheating that went on in the book, like Tom cheating on Daisy with Mertyl and Daisy cheating on Tom with Gatsby, that all should have stopped and then maybe Mertyl wouldn't have died.
I really do agree with AP Teacher Nayback that back then, if you were rich, you could get away with murder. These days, it's the rich people that are looked at first for murders.
Why does everyone hate Daisy? She was just doing what a rich woman would have done back then.
No way that a pretty rich girl's dad would have let her marry a poor nobody (which is what Gatsby used to be). I think that time is a big influence.
I do disagree about the rich getting away with murder today. Even O.J is getting his justice finally and senators can't just sell seats to the highest bidders these days.
Maybe we shouldn't put too much faith or trust in people to be perfect. It's just impossible.
Hey--watch the spelling--geez--I can't respond to some of you as I am not sure what you are saying!
I think ManBear has it right. Maybe Gatz and Daisy are living in the past and neither know what true love is--if so, wouldn't the end of the book had been different?
Anonymous tickle me elmo said...
The worst crime in the Great Gatsby is definitely when Daisy runs over Tom's mistress Myrtle. Gatsby takes the blame because he loves Daisy, and ends up being shot by Mr.Wilson. Which brings up my next point. I think that murder isn't the answer to anyones problem. I could see being upset about your wife dying,but shooting someone isn't going to bring them back. There is so much lying and marital issues going on too.I don't like how Tom and Daisy sneak around with other people. It doesn't even work out. Tom loses his woman, and Daisy gets stuck with her disgusting husband.I agree with Jack, Daisy only spends time with Gatsby because he is rich, and she gets to be the center of attention. The relationship problem happens to Nick too. Jordan tells him after Gatsby that she is engaged with a another man. "I don't give a damn about you now, but it was a new experience for me, and ...(pg:177)
Now that I have finished the book, I can add greatly to this post.
There are SO many crimes in this book- it's a shame, really. It's hard to say which one is worst because they all tie into the tragedy. As I mentioned before, the non-chalant cheating between Daisy/Gatsby and Tom/Myrtle is an obvious one. But it goes beyond that. When did stuff like this become okay?
Why on EARTH would you hit someone in a car and not stop? Even if it was intentional, wouldn't you at least PRETEND it was an accident?
Materialism and greed have taken over the society, or so the book portrays. Lying, deception, cheating, and overall apathy for what SHOULD matter are huge issues. It's also quite sad that when Gatsby is buried, you truly do realize that no one was his friend. I do believe Nick became his friend, but what about all those people who showed up at his house for parties? Even in the book, it mentioned that cars came in and out of his driveway the Saturday night after he died, but were disappointed that "for whatever reason" there was no party.
WOW, what a real bummer. The host died. But who cares? There's no music, free food, and illegal alcohol to guzzle.
I think especially with alcohol being illegal, it also sparked some other rebellious trends in society- it was a new world, free to explore. If they were doing this illegally, how much else could they get away with?
In response the (insert screen name):
I absolutely agree, I feel the worst crimes be commited in the Great Gatsby are those of the characters feeling the need to hide who they really are, we don't really ever see who the real Nick is, or who the real Daisy is, perhaps this is why we dislike these characters so much. The time period definately influences my decision, status has a huge role in all of the characters lives. I agree there is no excuse for tom or daisy's actions in the book. Due to Daisy's stupid and selfish decisions she kills a Myrtle and in the result of that get's Gatsby killed. I think that when people are forced to hide who they really are they become caught up in their own web of lies and can't tell the difference between their truth from lies, which is why I believe all of these events ended the way they did. Myrtle hiding her feelings for Tom and Gatsby hiding his feelings for Daisy. It is all a tragic situation!
I definately feel that the worst crime is when Myrtle gets hit by the car and Daisy lets Gatsby take the blame for it. Daisy basically killed two people, because if she would've said something, even just to Tom, he wouldn't have had Wilson kill Gatsby. That crime was also on the same level. Wilson should've never shot Gatsby just because Tom told him to. Another crime, not quite as large as the others, is that no one went to Gatsby's funeral. Everyone loved to go to his parties, but when he died they didn't care at all. One of the crimes I believed that can be overlooked is drinking during prohibition, but then again it did cause problems in the book. However, I feel Gatsby is a great guy, and that really changes my opinion on many of these issues.
In my opinion Daisy committed the worst crimes in the Great Gatsby. The fact that she took someone’s life and didn’t stand up for her wrong actions shows she’s a coward. It also shows that she feels she’s better than everyone else and thinks her money gives her the right or ability to live above the law.
I also think Tom’s affair was a huge crime because he did it even though he knew it was killing someone he “loved” inside. It shows he only thought of himself and was only worried about his own problems.
Both of these people are bad people.
I think manbearpig2009 said it the best: "Materialism and greed have taken over the society, or so the book portrays. Lying, deception, cheating, and overall apathy for what SHOULD matter are huge issues." Not only do I agree with him/her, but I think he/she said exactly what I was trying to say in my earlier post, only better.
I agree with AP teacher Nayback about lying being a big crime in the book. Gatsby lies about his life in order to impress Daisy, which ruins his reputation as a humble man. Another crime is when Gatsby knows Daisy is married to Tom, but still tries to pursue her anyway. Apparently, Gatsby is too love struck to let reality sink in. Trying to make Daisy fall in love with him (even though she is married) and acting upon his feelings is a crime that Gatsby commits. He needs to know where to draw the line.
As for overlooking crimes, I really don't feel there are any that should have been brushed off. The lying, the love affairs, the car accident involving Myrtle being killed, and Gatsby being shot are just a few of the many crimes found in the book. Even though it is the 1920’s and crimes aren’t as severely punished as they are today, the time period does not influence my decision about crimes. As for my feelings for Gatsby, they don’t really affect my decision either. I do feel sorry for him when he gets shot in the pool (since he wasn’t the cause of Myrtle’s death), but it was still a murder and deffiantly should have not been overlooked.
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